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Main Menu+Japanese (日本語メニュー) This page is under construction. (このページは現在作成中です。)
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ラクガキすぎ black miku39 201205200429

BY: http://piapro.jp/t/HAC5


Wrong Translation of VideoEdit

ビデオの誤訳とその周辺の問題Edit

During the investigation, it was started to find that translation of video from Japanese to English may have problems. It was found that relatively large amount of mis-translation may be occurring. It was realized that translation of lyric is translation of poem. Thus, It is very difficult. Translation of poem is highly difficult than normal translation of books or text.

It was found that English translator did not understand the meaning of Japanese lyric before translation. Some awful translation were occurred according to other site, user and Producer. Translator changed the meaning opposite during the Japanese lyric interpretation. English translator changed the meaning of lyric during the mis-translation. They only translated one sentence each time;but, did not fit the meaning of entire lyric enough. There is a few excellent translator also.

According to Japanese Producer and translator, it is very important to think several sentences (phrase) since the meaning of Japanese word can be sometime taken by several meaning within several sentences (phrase). There are comment that when English user learned simple conversation of Japanese, English user thought they already learned enough, then they started to translate, and then awful mis-translation may happen. Japanese translator is also telling that since lyric is poet, it is relatively difficult to translate, compare to normal Japanese. They are also telling that if a English translator can not write Japanese (by hand writing), it is not proper level to do translation of lyric.

Sometime, English translator may using automatic translation by using computer, such as Google translation. Several Japanese translators asked for the improvement/correction of words in the translated video site in YouTube. However, several English user may ignored. Then, we started to investigate if mysterious deletion may be initially targeted to unwanted or bad translation also. There is minor comment, claimer SASA-X-JUN may only targeted to the account of worse translation with bad attitude.

According to some Japanese translator of lyric, if an English user started to understand Japanese, the English user feels happy about it. Then, an English user tries to do translation from Japanese video even language level is not enough. If the translation is used in English video even with bad translation, the translator wouldn't notice and feel happy about it. Most of international fan does not understand mis-translation or does not realize the bad translation from it. Then, if international fan like the video music, translator may think it is OK and feel proud about it. English translator continues to translate lyric of other songs without negative feedback of bad translation.

It was also reported that in the case of Fansub of animation, native Japanese and English speaker are double checking for translation. Then, the quality of translation maybe relatively high.

It was started to discovered that original Producer of the video may have right to change the unwanted translation of the lyric. However, many English translated video may not have permission for translation. Thus, it may better to make the way of contact with Original Producer and translator.

Most/Many of the English translated video was uploaded without permission (or without contact) from Original Producers. It seems no significant contact to Original Producer yet at the time of translation and re-uploading. Thus, we needed to change the direction of Save Miku Project to fit the opinion of original Producer. We change the direction to investigate first instead of asking to recover video.

Protection of Vocaloid video is not only the way to Save Miku. Protection of creative environment is also important according to creator and Producer. Protection of creative environment is important to produce new video and secondary work. Where to upload is the only one of the actual right for minor/introductory Producer. Proper secondary use and protection of the chain of creation may also Save Miku.

13) Please say Hi to original Producer, if you are using a video for secondary use. This prevent many problems. It may occasionally OK even after use.Edit

13) 二次利用などの際には、一言作者に声におかけください。様々な問題が防げますEdit



4) To the people who make advice and receive advice (アドバイスする方と、される方へ)Edit


{{ #NewWindowLink: http://mikucommunity.wikia.com/wiki/How_to_Advice_and_Receive_Advice |How to Advice and Receive Advice}} 【アドバイスする方と、される方へ】


During the advice and receiving advice for correction or something, it was fond that many kind of fights and additional problems were generated very often. It may cause mysterious deletion of videos sometime. Thus, this feedback is generated to solve problem in advance.Edit


If original Producer ask to change something or delete video, please make fundamental relationship by communicating ordinary talk for about 1 WEEK before entering the discussion of major problem. It was found that immediate discussion regarding problems usually cause debate and fighting. It was also found that high school and middle school kids were occasionally causing problems in English WebsitesEdit

Even some Japanese people in YouTube tried to make advice to correct something, it was/may recognized as some kind of spam or similar activity due to poor communication skill in English. Please understand that original Producers and some people who is helping them may not use good communication skill in English.Edit


This is not the level of English writing. This is the experience level to understand foreign culture in different language/country. Experience to solve problem is needed for maintaining good communication. Please understand this is not the normal English advice nor normal conversation anymore.Edit



References and Appendix (参考文献と備考)Edit

Please translate into English. Translation request. LOL.

誰か下記の内容を、英語などの他の言語に翻訳してください。ww


[つべに小言投下してきた]

http://v-nyappon.net/?m=diary&a=page_detail&target_c_diary_id=993651


ボカロ海外交流の問題点

http://v-nyappon.net/?m=diary&a=page_detail&target_c_diary_id=1040159


攻撃こそ最大の防御~海外サイトへの進出

http://v-nyappon.net/?m=diary&a=page_detail&target_c_diary_id=1039308


Mind Gap between Cultures (for English-speaking members)

http://v-nyappon.net/?m=diary&a=page_detail&target_c_diary_id=988560


海外翻訳者と日本文化の理解

http://v-nyappon.net/?m=diary&a=page_detail&target_c_diary_id=965042

モデラーの方へ【至急】

http://v-nyappon.net/?m=diary&a=page_detail&target_c_diary_id=1045128




Explanation in JapaneseEdit

ボカロ海外交流の問題点

http://v-nyappon.net/?m=diary&a=page_detail&target_c_diary_id=1040159

1.言葉の壁  日本人が基本的な英語の習得に必要な時間数は1500~2000時間。一方、中学・高校の英語の授業数は合わせて1000時間なので、圧倒的に不足しており、情報発信の足かせ。ボカロ界にもっと英語のプロの参加が望まれる。  欧米人が基本的な日本語の習得に必要な時間数は4000時間。そのため海外ファンのほとんどは日本語の理解は困難。  その一方で、特にアメリカ人の過度の積極性が問題を生むことも多々ある。基本的な日本語を理解しないまま、ボランティア感覚で歌詞翻訳や利用規約の翻訳を引き受け、結果として誤訳を大量に広めることも少なくない。これに対しては、「翻訳は気軽な作業ではない」「他人の作品を翻訳することは責任が伴う」という認識をどのように広めるかが課題。


つべに小言投下してきた

http://v-nyappon.net/?m=diary&a=page_detail&target_c_diary_id=993651

さて、ボカロ曲を英訳する海外日本語学習者も多いですが、

『7~8割はとんでもない誤訳』

であることはあまり知られていないようです。

日本語初心者に共通する誤訳の特徴に、動詞連体形と終止形の取り違えがあります。

例えば、「青い空に浮かぶ白い雲がきれいだ。」という文を、日本語初心者が英訳すると、

「青い空が浮かぶ。白い雲がきれいだ。」とやってしまうのです。 理由は、「浮かぶ」を終止形(動詞の基本形)と勘違いするところにあります。 これについて、自チャンネルに

「海外ボカロ翻訳者に共通する誤訳は、日本語動詞連体形の、終止形との取り違えだ。『練習を重ねれば上手になる』、『自分の努力を認めてほしい』という考えは捨てろ。翻訳するからには、作者と閲覧者に対する責任があることを忘れるな。」と炎上覚悟で投下しました。


海外の一般的な誤訳の例と、何をもって「誤訳」と判断するか

http://ime.nu/jj2b.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-1.html


率直に申し上げると、海外翻訳者の10人中9人は意味を真逆にする重大な誤訳をしています。日本語は初心者が扱えるほど簡単な言語ではありません。

私がこれまでに見てきた誤訳の一例です。

原詩 - 誤訳英語 - 再対訳

間違い探しに終わるの - I finish finding mistakes - 間違い探しが終わった

初めて君の目を見た - Your eyes saw it first - 君の目は(勝手な解釈の目的語を)初めて見た

君を忘れない - You remember - 君は覚えている

今も僕は忘れない - Don't forget me - 僕を忘れないでね

あなたがくれた欠片 - You are incomplete - あなたは不完全(欠けた存在と言いたかった?)

明日になればきっと見つかるから - I'll be found when tomorrow comes - 明日になれば僕はきっと見つけてもらえるから

目を閉じればあなたがいる - You are standing there, aren't you? - (目を開けたら)あなたはそこに立っていてくれるんだよね

ネコちゃんワンちゃん出ておいで - Cats and dogs come - ネコやイヌが出てくる

ほとんどの海外翻訳者のレベルはこんなもんです。

2012-05-18:


No title まず最初に、私の職業は翻訳・通訳ではないことをお断りしておきます。いくつかミスがあるかもしれません。

『他人の』言葉を別の言語に変換することには、責任が伴います。 (自分の言葉を自分で誤訳するのは自由です。) そのためには、SL(起点言語)と TL(目標言語)両方の知識が絶対的に必要です。

よく「翻訳はネイティブに任せるのが当たり前。誤訳かどうかは非ネイティブには判断できない。」と主張する人がいますが、それは翻訳者が SL(この場合は日本語)を十分に知っている、というのが前提条件になります。

SL と TL の両方を知っている人が、文化や表現の差異を埋めるためにあえて言い回しを変えることがあります。それが意訳です。 意訳の是非については賛否両論分かれますが(永遠に結論は出ないでしょう)、SL 話者と TL 話者双方にほぼ同一の心理状態をもたらすためであれば許容される、というのが現在主流となっている考え方です。

例えば、私は某海外ボカロコミュニティーで「いつでも気軽に相談してください。」と言うつもりで "I'm available anytime!" と書き込みました。 直訳すると「私はいつでも利用できます!」という文ですが、これを誤訳だとか極端な意訳だと非難する人はいないでしょう。シチュエーション的に英語としてごく自然な表現だからです。これは SL と TL の表現の乖離を、心理状態の面から埋め合わせている良い例です。

いっぽう、SL を知らない人が適当に言葉を繕って一見美しい TL を作り上げたとしても、それは意訳とは言いません。ただ単に自分の SL への知識不足を根拠のない「憶測」「推測」「勘」で誤魔化しているにすぎません。これを誤訳と言います。

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